ಬೆಂಗಳೂರಿನ ಡಾ.ಸುಬ್ರಹ್ಮಣ್ಯ ಬಿ.ಆರ್. ಅವರ perception ಬರಹಕ್ಕೆ ವೇದಾಧ್ಯಾಯೀ ಶ್ರೀ ಸುಧಾಕರಶರ್ಮರ ಪ್ರತಿಕ್ರಿಯೆಯನ್ನು ಇಲ್ಲಿ ಪ್ರಕಟಿಸಲಾಗಿದೆ. ಓದುಗರು perception ಲೇಖನವನ್ನು ಇಲ್ಲೇ ಕೆಳಗೆ ಓದಿ ನಂತರ ಶರ್ಮರ ಬರಹವನ್ನು ಓದಿ ತಮ್ಮ ಅನಿಸಿಕೆ ವ್ಯಕ್ತಪಡಿಸಬಹುದು.
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This is a common problem with those who understand and advocate Shankara wrongly!
They speak of vyavaharika sathya and paaramarthika sathya.
But they miss the point as to where they are standing at the time of speaking.
If they are in vyavaharika base their experience of paaramarthika sathya is questionable! At the same time they fail to quote the VEDAS in support of their theory!!
If they are in paaramarthika sathya base, there exists only one Brahman and there can not be one who speaks and one who listens!! There can not be 'the perceiver, the perceived or the process of perception'!!
The theory that the world is just an illusion and just a 'perceived world' without real existence makes one inactive, lazy and lethargic. Because actions do not find a place in an illusionary world!! But why the very propounders of this theory are doing so many actions to fill their bellies, accumulating wealth and owning them?!!!!! Does not this amount to double standards.
VEDAS are clear that. we have to live in this REAL world and labour and work to gain spiritual strength and 'perceive' the world as it is!! "Kurvanneveha Karmaani jijeevisheth Shathagam samaaha" (Yajurveda.40.2.) - Perform your duties wishing to live for Hundred years & "Maa cchiththaa asmaath Lokaath" (Atharvaveda.8.1.4.) - Sever not yourself from this world.
It is true that Buddha and the like have uttered many words of wisdom, but their words are not infallible as compared to the VEDAS.
Human beings do perceive many things rightly and wrongly. The process of unlearning has to be with reference to wrong perceptions!!
Shankara, a great VEDIC scholar was only speaking of the world wherein we have to distinguish between FACE VALUE and INTRINSIC VALUE that things and theories have. When we are clear about the intrinsic value the face value can not mislead us or attract us! Hence the face value is just superfluous and illusionary.
Now it is open for the readers - for me readers are there, notes to be read too are there and the process of reading too is there - to "perceive" the essence of the above remarks, which I promise is perfectly in good faith and with an open mind.
- Vedadhyaayi Sudhakara Sharma.
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This blog is just an individual opinion of mine,not to offend or hurt anyone.
I would be more than happy if someone can correct me if they find anything wrong.
Look around,what do u percieve?seeing or hearing is different from perception,perception is a function of mind.you can give any kind of perception to a recieved stimuli or even desist to give any.When u look at a book,u know its a "book" cause u had learnt, book is a collection of facts,it has sentences arranged in it as chapters,the words follow grammar,if you finish reading this book it might help you in a certain way,and so on.All these learnt perceptions act subconsciously when you look at a book.In reality that book is nothing,it has no meaning to it when u look at it from an absolutely unlearnt eye.Show the book to a baby,its just like any other thing ,it is no different from a toy.As the baby grows it learns the difference between a toy and the book,this is how learning develops based on perception.If u had taught the baby toy as book and book as toy,it would ve learnt it sameway.Eventually the babay lives in a "percieved world".
What about the world we see ,feel n hear?the world is just there, its dead,its your perception that makes it lively,colurful,sad,miserable etc,You are choosing to give it meaning.If you dont believe it, work backwards and you will see,how "your world" has emerged.Our intelligence arises similarly,its like decieving ourselves twice. On a nothing,we assume something because of desire or inquisitiveness and then work backwards to find a relation,because that gives harmony to the mind.All our laws ,postulates, theorems are created on an assumed "something".So in reality there is no absolute law, ethics,mathematics,logic etc,law and ethics give harmony to assumed society and relations.Maths n logic give harmony to the assumed numbers and concepts.All these law and maths are not wrong but only work for assumed concepts.They themselves are pointing backwards,telling us this is how you assumed things and this is how you find harmony.So everything emerges from "nothing".So this "nothing" denotes absolute harmony.For example ,we introduce the non existant "1" on a truly existant "0",and when tried to relate them, a law emerges(subtraction) pointing the origin. This is like knowing all the laws and theorems to all possible assumptions ever made.This is nothing but OMNISCIENT. This is what Buddha called "shunyavastha",and Adi shankara called "Brahman".This is paramarthika satyam,'Brahma satyam jagat mithya' and our laws are vyavaharika satyam."Tat Tvam asi" is a mahavakya from Chandogya Upanishad.You dont have to believe it because someone says it or is told in vedas,when you yourself look thru a discerning unbiased eye,you ll see the world to be untrue and is based on assumptions, appearing falsely true(maya) and is a reflection of something truely true.What i have presented is a logical framework,i dont know what is it like to drop all assumptions.To really feel how is it to be to be "nothing",you should try droping all conscious and subconscious assumptions,this path is called raja yoga.and what Buddha described as Zen.All other paths eventually lead to Raja yoga,be it jnana yoga or karma yoga,and Raja yoga leads to absolute truth..
Each human being represents a thought, and thats all he is,and thoughts emerge when mind uses its imagination,all three can be used interchangebly.just as our thoughts cease to exist on proving the contrary,every human can unlearn his false existence.As J krishnamurthi says, by observing his mind as an outsider,the observer eventually becomes the observed.
Respested Sharmaji, Thank you for your vauable inputs.Grateful to hear from you sir.I am sure confusion helps me grow.I still feel ""for an assumed world and society", following its rules and ethics,planning,making money for a better living
ReplyDeleteis absolutely true,which is nothing but adopting double standards with respect to Paramarthika satyam.Kind of fooling ourselves twice is apparently correct.If we wish to follow something other than Raja Yoga,which is nothing but accepting the society,all these seem to be true.
I would also like to quote Albert Einstein's statement here who went above all human imaginations.He said Speed of light is fixed,time is relative.Which means there is no absolute space time or cosmic time,because "time" is our creation,it is not present truely.This indicates all our creations are imaginary be it the most basic concept of time.This is Paramarthika Satya.Now if we consider the first half of his statement,Speed of light is fixed,this is also true because while defining speed we have assumed time,this is like Vyavaharika Satya.
In absolute true terms,there is Raja Yoga or Zen as our path,but if we cant drop our assumed society and assumptions,we are free to "live" in it following its rules and ethics.
ಒಳ್ಳೆಯ ವಿಚಾರಗಳು!! ನಾನು ಓದುಗನಾಗಿರುವೆ! ಧನ್ಯವಾದಗಳು.
ReplyDeleteDear all,
ReplyDeleteIt is indeed thought provoking going through the "pereceptions" of friend Devasudha.
May I add my thoughts on this:
"So everything emerges from "nothing" says our friend.
Something canNOT arise out of nothing. Something can arise ONLY out of something existing. That "existing" thing may not be perceived or may be in unmanifested/unperceivable condition. Butter comes out of milk, when it goes through the stages of curd forming, churning and filtering before butter can be perceived, which therefore was already there in unmanifest form. Similarly a murthy is a stone for an unbeliever, but a holy God for a believer! The former cannot perceive what the latter does! A child enjoys the sound of a breaking glass which it throws, whereas to an elder it is annoying destructive noise! No doubt perception is the point; but the Material Energy in the glass and the contacted Earth Energy as the glass fell on it, had converted into Impact Energy and resulted in the form of Sound Energy. Energy was already present and kept changing before finally its one form was perceived, that is all. Before the Universe was created, it was present in capsular Energy form in Brahman and by a Sankalpa He gave it the form that is perceived by us, as and when, we "discover" it, when not ordinarily seen!
Regardful wishes.
-Major Ramanujam
Respected Sir, when you say,"something cannot arise out of nothing" its absolutely true.Thats an excellent point.But I said our mind or consciousness or perceptions arises out of "nothing".That seemingly "nothing" is "nothing" with respect to the mind because it has worked backwards.But "everything" when the mind is transcended.THE VERY QUALITY OF MIND IS TO LOOK OUTWARDS,GIVING A SENSE OF ITS EXISTENCE ALL THE TIME.When it negates itself,to it,it appears as though "nothing" is reached, for an outside observer on a truly cosmic scale,it appears as though "everything" is reached,something similar to theorey of relativity.:).
ReplyDeleteRespected Sharmaji,kindly accept my salutations.Though it took some effort and time,I now kind of realise why DVAITHA and ADVAITHA are both true.Advaitha explains events on a macro level,Dvaitha on a micro scale,neither can be considered wrong.Confusion arises when trying to know which is better amongst the two.The two Paramarthika and Vyavaharika base truly exists.On standing at a Vyavaharika base and accepting Advaitha seems incorrect similarly we cant accept Dvaitha on Paramarthika base.Thank you again for those insightful words.It really helped me.
ReplyDeleteInteresting discussions!
ReplyDeleteIn physics, similar confusion exists. Is light a particle or a wave? Is electrons particles or clouds? In fact, it is both. How can one appear as two at the same time?
When I as one, can be the grandfather, father, husband and son at the same time, when my grandchild, my son, my wife and my mother are present at home; definitely one can appear as many. This is “Vyavaharika Sathya”
From the stand point of “Paramarthika Sathya”, “Who am I?” Who in me “perceives”?
Eye is a camera, mind is the screen, memory is the data bank and intellect is the sorter.
I am sure the perceiver is beyond all these.
The moment I perceive the perceiver that becomes an object of perception, and cannot be the “ perceiver” anymore.
As per the “paramarthika Sathya” rightly stated by Sri. Sudhakara Sharma. Reply dated 16th Oct 2012.
“There exists only one “Brahman” and there cannot be one who speaks and one who listens.”
The mission of my further existence is only to “experience” this “Eternal Truth”
Regards,
P.R.Thiagarajan